St. Gregory the Great
Dialogues
The Fourth Book › Chapter Twenty-nine: The Reason Why We Ought to Believe, That Corporal Fire Can Hold and Torment the Spirits That Be Without Bodies.
Chapter Twenty-nine: the reason why we ought to believe, that corporal fire can hold and torment the spirits that be without bodies.
GREGORY. If a spirit without a body can be holden and kept in the body of a living man: why, likewise, after death, may not an incorporal spirit be holden and kept in corporal fire?
PETER. The reason why an incorporal spirit in every living man is kept in the body, is, because it doth quicken and give life to the body.
GREGORY. If an incorporal spirit, Peter, may be kept in that to which it giveth life: why also, for punishment, may it not be kept there, where it continually dieth? And we say that a spirit is holden by fire, to the end that, in the torment thereof, it may both by seeing and feeling be punished: for the soul by seeing of the fire is afflicted, and burned it is, in that it seeth itself to be burned: and so it falleth out, that a corporal thing may burn that which hath no body, whiles that an invisible burning and sorrow is drawn from visible fire, and the incorporal soul by means of corporal fire may be tormented with a spiritual and incorporal flame: although out of the Gospel we also learn that the soul is not only tormented by seeing the fire, but also by the feeling thereof: for the rich glutton, as our Saviour saith, was buried in hell. And he giveth us to understand that his soul was kept in fire, in that he telleth us how he did beseech Abraham, speaking to him in this manner: Send Lazarus, that he may dip the top of his finger into the water and may refresh my tongue: because I am tormented in this flame.[4:38] Seeing, then, truth itself assureth us that the sinful rich man was condemned into fire, what wise man can deny that the souls of the reprobate be detained in fire?
PETER. Both reason and testimony of scripture draweth my mind to believe what you say: but yet, when I think not of them, it returneth again to his former opinion: for I neither see, nor can perceive, how a corporal thing can hold and torment that which is incorporal and without body.
GREGORY. Tell me, I pray you, whether do you think that those Angels which fell from heaven have bodies or no?
PETER. What man that hath his wits will say that they have any bodies?
GREGORY. And whether do you think that the fire of hell is corporal or spiritual?
PETER. I make no doubt but that it is corporal, seeing most certain it is that bodies be burned therewith.
GREGORY. And as certain it is that, at the day of judgment, our Saviour shall say to the reprobate: Go into everlasting fire, which is prepared for the devil and his angels.[4:39] If, then, the devil and his angels, though without bodies, shall be tormented with corporal fire, what marvel is it that the souls after their departure, and before they be united again to their bodies, may in like manner suffer corporal torments?
PETER. The reason you give is very plain, and therefore now there is not any further doubt touching this question, that doth trouble my mind.
Edition notes (Gardner / P.W.)
[4:38] 1 Luke 16, 24.
[4:39] 1 Matt. 25, 41.
Source: Dialogues (Tertullian.org)